A few thoughts on Yammer, a twitter-like for organizations

Yam­mer is an SAAS clone of Twit­ter, pro­vid­ing pri­vate net­works for groups and com­pa­nies. See this post for a good descrip­tion of the service.

When Yam­mer won the TC50, we wit­nessed two sequen­tial waves of reac­tions. The first was lauda­tory and praised a com­pany that found how to mon­e­tize a ser­vice like Twit­ter, where it had hith­erto failed. The sec­ond denounced its per­ni­cious busi­ness model. I fit squarely in this last camp. Here’s why:

Yam­mer lets any­one with a com­pany email address cre­ate a net­work open exclu­sively to the other per­sons with a valid email address on the same domain. Yam­mer adver­tises heav­ily this: any­one can open a secure and safe pri­vate net­work to ben­e­fit from twitter-like fea­tures inside your busi­ness. Oh, and it’s free, so why don’t you go ahead and ben­e­fit from all this great­ness ? Well, in fact you do and Yam­mer has had a good growth (but not quite like the impres­sive expec­ta­tions it had). But the twist gets you at this point and it hurts.

The twist here is in the busi­ness model. If your com­pany wants to man­age the net­work, then it has to pay. And the price is per user: the more users, the higher the price. So essen­tially, it is bait and wait: bait for the employ­ees to cre­ate a net­work and use it, wait for cor­po­rate IT to come, want to man­age it and spit out the cash.

But even when pay­ing, what you can get in terms of con­trol is very low. For the major­ity of large com­pa­nies, what you want is not a sys­tem based on email address, but one based on your SSO sys­tem. Mainly for one rea­son: you want to con­trol which ones of your alumni keep their access to the net­work, if any. Yam­mer doesn’t offer that, so you take a large risk by assum­ing you will man­u­ally do it. They also offer IP restric­tions, but that doesn’t solve the prob­lem either.

The only workaround offered is for employ­ees to sig­nal a for­mer employee when they spot them. Trust me, it won’t work. As wor­ry­ing is the con­tent own­er­ship issue which belongs to the user up until the point where the com­pany is pay­ing for it and claims the net­work. Even if cov­ered by the T&Cs, I imag­ine the poten­tial legal issues aris­ing from a change of own­er­ship with­out express con­sent of the users. What does this all mean?

The main con­se­quence for me is a loss of con­fi­dence in the “web 2.0″ appli­ca­tions as a whole, as they are viewed by a lot of peo­ple. Let me explain. It’s already dif­fi­cult to con­vince cor­po­ra­tions to use inno­v­a­tive appli­ca­tions from small com­pa­nies, espe­cially deliv­ered as a ser­vice. You com­bine the risk of deal­ing with small play­ers that can go bust in the short term and the risk of trust­ing them on their SAAS imple­men­ta­tion (yes, even with due dili­gence). We try to mit­i­gate that by explain­ing rep­u­ta­tion is a sig­nif­i­cant asset in this area as well, and com­pa­nies not play­ing by the rules have more to lose than to win.

But with busi­ness mod­els like Yam­mer emerg­ing, then the loss of con­fi­dence is not just for them, but for all the other appli­ca­tions as well. So this is bad for insid­ers within com­pa­nies try­ing to push for these appli­ca­tions, and bad for a whole bunch of other com­pa­nies. Because it raises the dif­fi­cul­ties to move them within the enter­prise. Bernard Lunn is not say­ing some­thing else in his review:

The rea­son Yam­mer was con­sid­ered bril­liant was that it had a “cun­ning rev­enue model”. Let me see if I’ve got this right. You use Yam­mer rather than Twit­ter to restrict the Fol­low­ers to your col­leagues. So you can dis­cuss com­pany secrets really securely. (That, by the way, was a joke!) You use your cor­po­rate email ID (Gmail, Yahoo etc not allowed). All that is free, so mas­sive viral adop­tion. Then com­pa­nies want to claim/control the con­ver­sa­tion. So they pay for all users on Yam­mer with a cor­po­rate email ID. Yep that is cun­ning all right. Other words come to mind as well.

What the bot­tom line? Small com­pa­nies can prob­a­bly use them, but in their place I would use one of the numer­ous alter­na­tives avail­able and not trust a com­pany like that. Big com­pa­nies should avoid Yam­mer at all cost and go with reg­u­lar alter­na­tives (as inno­v­a­tive and SAAS). And that is prob­a­bly the first and only appli­ca­tion I would sup­port the ban of on cor­po­rate networks.

UPDATED — 12/21/08 : Included full quote of Bernard Lunn’s arti­cle on RRW instead of just a link.

  • rossjimenez
    Good Post Julien… and I would have to agree with you. It is especially difficult for the very largest of corporations and will lead simply to a "block" by default mentality. This loss of confidence is what I have to deal with while trying to evangelize social tools internally which makes my job more difficult.

    In my mind Yammer could:

    1.) Offer an opt-out capability that is allow a user from a company to request that they block users from their company, when someone from @email tries to sign-up they get an email with the person’s message who requested that they “block” sign-ups for the company. This way the person could still engage with the individual to determine proper usage etc.

    2.) Would be to simply provide all management features with a limited number of users, say 50/100 users.
  • jiponet
    Interesting article Julien

    As Yammer announced that the Yammer software can be installed inside the company firewalls, does this change your views?
    http://blog.yammer.com/blog/2009/02/yammer-exte...
  • Yes, it does.

    I have sent them an email to get more details on the specifics, as they do have an history of inflating their claims, but it looks certainly much better than before.
  • Julien, interesting thoughts in this and other posts. It is interesting to hear a POV from within a large enterprise. Pease send me an email so we can connect. Bernard
  • Julien:

    In contrast to your assertions, Yammer handles the case of former employees well. First of all, company admins can easily remove former employees. The community can also police itself by requiring any user to re-confirm their company email address at any time. For large companies, Yammer plans to add single sign-on / directory integration shortly.

    Companies can also restrict access to their Yammer network to a particular IP range, such as their VPN. You fail to explain why this would not keep out former employees.

    Yammer also provides a huge advantage over traditional communications like email: former employees can easily take company emails with them, or forward them to someone outside the company. Yammer content stays within the company's network on Yammer, where it can be controlled, deleted, or exported by company admins.

    Your claim to advance the interests of SaaS by slandering Yammer is preposterous.

    Regards,

    David Sacks
    CEO, Yammer
  • David -

    For former employees, SSO is the only viable option, and as you said you
    don't provide it, yet you claim you provide a space only accessible to
    current employees. This is just not true. All other options involve a manual
    step by either admins or employees which renders them unusable when you have
    more than a few hundreds users: you can't ask IT functions to manually
    manage this, and if you do, you will have mistakes. And yes, all large
    companies have experience of this type of mistakes in the past.

    IP filtering: some remote access solutions cannot be allowed with this. This
    is not the most important point however: a large part of the value derived
    from Twitter-like applications stems from their accessibility via SMS, from
    any computer, etc. I don't see the point of deploying this if it can only be
    used from the company's network or assets. Do I want to open my company
    laptop and connect via VPN each time I want to update my status? Not at all.
    This workaround limits too much the value of the application, especially as
    a mobile application accessible on the go.

    So, no, until you offer SSO, Yammer doesn't handle former employees well. In
    fact, claiming that is misleading because former employees can easily slip
    through the manual monitoring and remain on the network for quite some time.

    Regarding the value of Yammer for security reasons over email, again this is
    misleading, since you encourage the employees to create content that
    companies will want to control, and you make companies pay afterwards. I
    could go on and on. As Stowe Boyd found out as well, Present.ly is a much more attractive Twitter-like application for companies, with a much cleaner business model.

    Adopting an aggressive tone by arguing my "slandering of Yammer is
    preposterous" won't change the fact that your business model is essentially
    based on a new twist of racketing companies to take back the control over an
    unsecured discussion space.

    PS: And when you will have SSO, you will again make companies pay for the
    privilege to have SSO implemented on their network. I stand by my position,
    and would advise anyone to ban access to Yammer from the corporate network,
    make it against policy to contribute to it, while at the same time implement
    an alternative like Present.ly where price and control can be managed
    properly.

    PPS: Reminder of my disclaimer: as anything on this website, this is my
    personal opinion, not a professional one nor is it related in any way to the
    positions or actions of my employer.
  • Julien-

    Yammer now offers directory integration / SSO. We are piloting it with some early customers and then it will become part of our basic admin tools package on the website.

    Since your original article, Present.ly copied our approach of letting employees sign up with a company email address first, before the company claims the network. Obviously they did not believe that their model was the superior one.

    Seriously, what's the harm in letting employees test drive a product before the company buys it? Isn't that better than the alternative? How many times has IT purchased expensive software only to see no one adopt it? Yammer lets the employees prove the need before the company buys it.

    Regards,

    David

    PS: I like your idea of an enterprise TweetDeck. We will support it.
  • Hi David -
    Yes, I'm following up to get more details on the Active Directory
    integration, looking forward to it.

    The best model depends of the size and business of the company I think. For
    large companies or companies in sensitive industries, the claiming model you
    have and Present.ly adopted is a negative. For small and medium businesses,
    it can be - wrongly in my opinion - appealing. So in the end, what matters
    for the start-ups in this space are the respective market size of the 2
    markets.

    I actually agree 100% with your last point, especially for social enterprise
    software. Without directory integration, my reasoning is: employees can't
    talk about business critical issues and if Yammer just used for casual
    points, not much more value than twitter.

    We agree on the fact that employees should be the ones adopting an
    application. IT functions need to give them the means to do it.

    To facilitate this process, I think adopting the right pricing model is
    critical. I have described one possible model here:
    http://www.macroprinciples.com/2009/02/how-to-p...

    I would be really interested in your feedback on this point...

    Many thanks for the stimulating points!

    Best regards,
    - Julien
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